Case Study: Nicodemus (Part 3)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: All right, let's go to John chapter. [00:00:02] Speaker B: Three and pick up with the story, the case study rather of Nicodemus in John chapter three. [00:00:12] Speaker A: Okay. If you would, let's pray together. Our Lord in heaven, we thank you so much for the opportunity to meet together as a church of God. Lord, we look forward to our Sunday school and to the services today in the morning and in the evening. As we look into your word, Lord, we just want to grow. We want to learn. We want to learn more about you and the truth and for you to. We desire, and we ask that you would transform us and conform us into the image of Christ. And as we study Nicodemus and this conversation that you had with him so many years ago, please give us understanding and help us to know and understand the truth and that our faith would be grounded solidly in the word of God, in the Scripture. And so please teach and help your people this morning and bless the kids downstairs in the various Sunday school classes down there as well as they learn. I pray those kids would grow and understand the Scriptures as well. And so we ask your blessing on everything today, Lord. Help our heart to be focused and attentive in Jesus name. Amen. [00:01:18] Speaker B: All right, so we are looking at Nicodemus. And just, just by way of review, we were, we finished up looking at verse number three and four. The Bible says this Jesus answered and said unto him, verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born. [00:01:37] Speaker A: Again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. [00:01:38] Speaker B: Nicodemus saith unto him, how can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb and be born? And so we drew from that. [00:01:49] Speaker A: We saw the principle in which Nicodemus. [00:01:54] Speaker B: Being an illustration or an example of. [00:01:58] Speaker A: A religious person being confronted with the Savior, with the Gospel and how he responded. [00:02:05] Speaker B: And his default response was to look. [00:02:10] Speaker A: At something that was supposed to be, and the Lord meant it to be inward and spiritual and to look at it in terms of the outward and the physical. And so Nicodemus, first of all, he thinks that the new birth is a reference to physical birth, which is of course not correct. And the Lord corrects him on that. [00:02:34] Speaker B: But it does present another aspect when. [00:02:38] Speaker A: You'Re dealing with religious people is even when you're talking about the new birth, many times if you ask someone who is religious, doesn't matter what religion, it doesn't matter at all if you ask them, have you been born again? Which is a sound biblical question, evangelistic question, it is good to ask that because that is, you are right down the line with what the Lord himself said. And when you ask that, many times, though people think you mean or have interpreted, you know, it used to be. It used to be that when people talked about born again, religious people like, would not act like they knew what you were talking about. They just didn't know. But since so many evangelical types have used that terminology, these groups that believe in essentially in works salvation have adapted. And so they, even though they still believe the same thing, they've adopted terminology and through their publications and through their teaching, they have disseminated an explanation for this question. And that explanation is almost always water baptism. Almost always water baptism. And so now when you ask a religious person, have you been born again? And they often will say, well, I've been baptized, or yes, that happened when I got baptized. And that's kind. But again, that's the same thing as Nicodemus, because Nicodemus interpreted what Jesus said, which he was dealing with something purely spiritual, eternal and inward. And they interpreted it as well. If you pull lever A and get baptized, then out, you know, it's like vending machine religion. You know, you push the code in and out pops eternal life, forgiveness of sin or whatever. That's how people view it. I mean, I'm convinced of it, having talked to people, and I'm sure you have too. That's, you know, that's the way they view it. So they think Jesus says, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. And they think, well, I need to get baptized. They get baptized and there's no effect in their life at all. None. After their body dries, assuming they baptized by immersion, after their body dries, their heart is exactly the same as it ever was. There is no change. And so what Jesus said is, he. [00:05:04] Speaker B: Said, we'll get to this later. But he says, that which is born. [00:05:06] Speaker A: Of flesh is flesh. There's still flesh, nothing more. Just a, just a sinner, dead in trespasses and sins. Just the same. [00:05:15] Speaker B: And so this is the way it's often misinterpreted and it's. And sometimes it's not the new birth. [00:05:21] Speaker A: Sometimes they describe, despite the fact that a birth which is the, the comparison that Jesus chose, right, he chose that illustration, right? That comparison, that's an instantaneous matter, right? I mean, it happens all at once and it's done and it's irreversible. And that's what the Lord used to describe this spiritual miracle, right? And even though that's the case, some People try to describe the new birth as a process. Well, that's not what it is. That betrays the illustration. And so I'm just trying to prepare you. You know, this is, you know, what we're trying to do is the school of evangelism. I'm trying to help you to see how religious institutions, cults and such have interpreted the scriptures that we often go to. Here's the thing. The truth is, though, you don't have to know all of that. I mean, it's good and beneficial. But the thing you need to know, and I need to know more than anything else, is the actual text of scripture. Because when you know that, the false stands out when you hear it. [00:06:38] Speaker B: And so Nicodemus looks at the physical. He's not paying attention to anything as it relates to the inward. And so to him, from a religious. [00:06:51] Speaker A: Point of view, he's like, I don't lack anything. I'm good. I'm a good person. I follow all the laws of Judaism and all of that kind of thing. [00:07:01] Speaker B: And his viewpoint is very, very common today. God accepts me because I have performed this ritual or that service. I'm a member of this religion. I'm a good person because I have. [00:07:13] Speaker A: Done this thing or that thing. And very few people look at themselves. I mean, how many people have you ever heard say, brother Jim talking to a lot of people right downtown? You know, Brother Jim's ministry is primarily evangelism. Right. And how many people have you ever met that said, you know, jim, I've been baptized and, you know, I've done confirmation, but, you know, my heart is still. It's the same as it ever was. I mean, that's just not something people really say. They say, I've done it, therefore I'm good. That's what they say. They don't even see what the Lord is saying here. [00:07:57] Speaker B: And so we look at verse number. We come down to verse number. Verse number four. How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb and be born? Verse 5 says, Verily, verily, Jesus answered, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. See, it's baptism. [00:08:21] Speaker A: It says water. It says water. All right, so we have to spend. We're going to spend this Sunday school lesson addressing the question of baptism. We're not going to look at everything about it, but the main points or arguments used by those who believe that baptism is essential for salvation and primarily the Verses that are often cited. We won't go to everyone. There are some in Acts and stuff, but we're looking at direct teaching, like in the epistles especially. [00:08:55] Speaker B: Okay, so look at verse number five. Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit. [00:09:02] Speaker A: This is a common fault with people that have a predisposition to believe that baptism is required for salvation. Is they. They are predisposed to see any reference to the word baptized or the reference to the word water and immediately associate it with baptism and with. Or with baptism. And, you know, I understand that. I can understand why they do that. [00:09:26] Speaker B: But we must look at the context, as in verse number five. In verse number five, the context immediately following the mention of water, the Lord in verse six describes what he means. [00:09:41] Speaker A: By being born of water. [00:09:42] Speaker B: He says, I'll read verse five and six. Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born. [00:09:56] Speaker A: Of the spirit is spirit. [00:09:57] Speaker B: This is Hebrew. Listen. [00:09:58] Speaker A: This is Hebrew. Think now, I don't want to lose you. But if you pay attention, you can see this is a parallelism. This is the way Hebrew people think or thought back then because their language was given to it. This was their kind of poetry. So it comes in pairs. [00:10:17] Speaker B: Except a man be born of water and of the spirit. [00:10:21] Speaker A: That which is born of flesh is flesh, spirit is spirit. [00:10:25] Speaker B: You see how it comes in pairs. [00:10:29] Speaker A: The fact that they occur like that in parallel shows that the Lord is explaining verse five with verse six. [00:10:36] Speaker B: And so in verse six, he's obviously. [00:10:38] Speaker A: Describing the physical birth, which is his whole point, right? [00:10:42] Speaker B: It's his whole illustration. [00:10:44] Speaker A: It's a birth. He's describing a physical birthday compared to a spiritual birth. [00:10:49] Speaker B: Now, what he's saying is in verse number six, he's saying that a physical birth brings you into the world and. [00:10:54] Speaker A: Gives you life physically, but does nothing spiritually. That which is born of the flesh is just flesh. There's no spiritual element to it at all. And that answers Nicodemus question, which was, how can a man be born when he is old? Jesus is like, that's not what I'm talking about. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a spiritual birth. That's what he's saying in verse six. Is that clear to everybody? It's perfectly evident if you just pay attention, right? [00:11:23] Speaker B: So you have the context. The context does not allow for baptism because Jesus explains it. He Explains, refers. The born of water in verse number five refers to the natural birth, which is fundamentally and essentially different than the new birth, the spiritual birth that the Lord mentions. In verse six, number two, the words. Look at verse number five again. Except a man be born of water. [00:11:58] Speaker A: The words don't even allow for baptism. How is water baptism a birthday? In what way does that follow? In what way is that reasonable? [00:12:12] Speaker B: There is no connection between being dumped. [00:12:14] Speaker A: In water or much less being effused upon or sprinkled or whatever. [00:12:21] Speaker B: There's no connection. [00:12:22] Speaker A: But how is that a birth? [00:12:23] Speaker B: A birth involves new life, right? [00:12:26] Speaker A: I mean, we know that life begins at conception, but as far as the. [00:12:30] Speaker B: Outward life, a birth involves new life. [00:12:36] Speaker A: It involves something that's a newness of nature, right? [00:12:41] Speaker B: The beginning of something. [00:12:43] Speaker A: That's what a birth is. That is, none of that is true of baptism. [00:12:46] Speaker B: So the illustration falls apart the minute. [00:12:48] Speaker A: You say born of water means baptism. Doesn't even make sense. [00:12:53] Speaker B: So the words deny this argument. This has. And besides that fact, Jesus, he mentions the inner man. He talks about the spiritual part of it. [00:13:05] Speaker A: And water baptism has no effect upon the spiritual part of man at all. Unless you believe in some sort of like mystical, some magical, you know. You know. But that's not what the Lord is describing. [00:13:19] Speaker B: Number three, in verse number six, the Lord mentions the Spirit. If water baptism is the new birth that Jesus speaks of, then what is the spirit birth? Because he says in verse six, that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. [00:13:39] Speaker A: So Jesus in verse 6 plainly describes a spiritual birth. [00:13:45] Speaker B: But if water baptism is that, then. [00:13:49] Speaker A: Why does Jesus mention the spiritual birth? Because obviously there's nothing spiritual. It's physical. It's physical. [00:13:58] Speaker B: So water birth is not equal to spiritual birth. They are distinct. The spiritual birth and the water birth are not the same. Therefore, water baptism is not the new. [00:14:11] Speaker A: Birth Jesus speaks of. Here's what I'm trying to say. Okay, I know I'm getting a little bit confusing here, but follow the logic. Those that look at verse five and it says born of water, they say that's baptism, okay? Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, that's baptism. Does everybody follow me? Born of water is baptism. Well, then why would you say the new birth is water baptism? Because Jesus follows that up and says, and of the Spirit, they can't be the same. So what sometimes they'll say is, you have to be born. You have to be born of the spirit and baptized. Well, that's a problem. That's a problem. Because if you're born of the Spirit, you already have new life. Why do you need the water? The whole thing hinges on a false understanding of verse 5. Born of water cannot refer to baptism. That messes up the whole context. [00:15:14] Speaker B: Number four, verse five cannot refer to water baptism because of the mention of water. [00:15:23] Speaker A: It's very simple, and we'll see this in just a minute more thoroughly. [00:15:27] Speaker B: Every mention in the Bible of water. [00:15:29] Speaker A: Is not talking about baptism, okay? It's just that simple. Now, does baptism involve water? Well, of course. [00:15:37] Speaker B: Of course it involves water. [00:15:39] Speaker A: But just because the word is found. [00:15:41] Speaker B: In scripture does not always mean water baptism. But this is how religion. [00:15:48] Speaker A: This is called eisegesis, which is you have a doctrine, and you are going. [00:15:54] Speaker B: To read into the doctrine, into the. [00:15:56] Speaker A: Text of Scripture, what your doctrine is. And so you are going to interpret it not based upon what the context says, but based upon what your doctrinal position is. And that's how you arrive at these things. And let me tell you something. The people that are in religions that teach this kind of thing, they're sincere. They sincerely believe there is efficacy in water baptism, that it does something and is related to their salvation. They really believe it, and they really believe that the Bible teaches it. But the Lord does not respect false understandings of the Bible, no matter how sincere they are. Right? [00:16:41] Speaker B: So basically, the logic goes like this. The text of Scripture says water, and. [00:16:47] Speaker A: In my religion, there is a ritual involving water. Therefore, this text must equal the ritual in my religion. I want to tell you something. Now, I do not intend on exalting the Baptist denomination. Okay, Follow me here. We are independent Baptists. We are by definition, not a part of a denomination. Now, we identify with the name Baptist, which is an identifying word to describe a set of doctrines and beliefs, right? But we're not part of a denomination, this church. I mean, if we had a financial need, there's no bishop, there's nobody we can call that's gonna drop money from heaven. There's nobody like that. It's either the Lord or it doesn't work. All right? One of the reasons that we identify with the Baptist people historically is because one of the fundamental truths that Baptists have held is the authority, the absolute authority of Scripture above everything else. And this is where it matters. This is where it matters. Because when you come at the Scripture with something you want to prove and you don't let the Scripture tell you what it means, that's a completely different basis. If you come at the Scripture with tradition of your religion and you're looking to Find it. Well, you're going to find it. You're going to find it. But on the other hand, if you come at the scripture with the Scripture is the final and sole authority, then it determines what you believe, not the reverse. It might seem like a subtle distinction, but it's not. It is an important distinction. It is an important distinction. Many times when you deal with people on these, you know, I know some. Some of you like to. Like to debate questions of, you know, of faith and that kind of thing, scriptural questions, and that's fine. But what you'll often find and what I listen for when I'm talking to someone is to what does this person immediately appeal? Tradition, Mommy and Daddy. What we've always believed, our forefathers, the Puritans, to what do we appeal to? If the answer is anything other than the text of Scripture, we're off base. Not that all those things are bad, but those things must be subjected to the text of Scripture. And even when we do that, there's going to be places where we disagree and there's going to be places where we don't see things eye to eye. [00:19:49] Speaker B: But at least our basis is the same. [00:19:52] Speaker A: Right? And that's super important. Okay, Number five, you got me distracted. See, why do you all get me so distracted? Trying to get through my lesson here? [00:20:01] Speaker B: Number five, what I call the lack of proof. Verse five, cannot refer to water baptism. [00:20:08] Speaker A: Because of a lack of proof. [00:20:09] Speaker B: What do I mean by that? Here's what I mean. Honest people will admit that their water baptism, even though they claim that Jesus. [00:20:19] Speaker A: Is referring to water baptism, honest people. [00:20:22] Speaker B: Admit that their water baptism did nothing to change them. It was an act that they performed, but it did not, absolutely did not produce the radical, fundamental and essential inward change that Jesus describes, as well as. [00:20:39] Speaker A: What the other scriptures describe, which is what he's talking about in verse six. That which is born of the spirit is spirit, spiritual nature. I remember one time I was out witnessing with Pastor Craig, and it was like a. He. Most. Most of you didn't know Pastor Craig. Pastor Craig was a lot like. Brother Burgess. Would not like me saying this, but he was a lot like Brother Burgess. Would you agree with that? There's definite. Well, let's put it. There's definite similarities. Very outgoing, and that's. That's the way he was. So. [00:21:13] Speaker B: And he loved it. [00:21:14] Speaker A: He loved to talk to strangers, and he would. But one time we were out in Berea here. It was near the. Let's see, where was it? Anyway, the place doesn't matter. So we met this fellow. He was in his probably 20s, 25, 27, 6, something like that. And Pastor Craig started to talk to him about the Lord, and he asked him about whether he was saved and all this. And the man had been going to a church of Christ, which is well known to believe in water baptism is essential for salvation. And so Pastor Craig started talking to him, and the man said, oh, well, yeah, I've been baptized. And so they started talking on that subject. And the, you know, the man there said, you know, he started to argue because Church of Christ are generally pretty contentious and argumentative on that point. You know, it's Acts 2:38, as if it's the only verse in the Bible. You know, Acts 2:38. Acts 2:38. Like, did you read the rest of Acts? Anyway, so he went there and started talking about it, and Pastor Craig totally turned the conversation, I mean, on a dime. And you know what he asked him? And I thought, man, and I've always remembered it because it was so effective. I don't know, it might not be effective to you or me, but it was effective in that moment. He said, well, since you've been baptized, has your life changed? You know, that's essentially the truth is being described here. And the young man just stopped and he said, well, no, not really. And it was just like, whoa. So what you're doing is you're denying. You're denying. You're actually. You're affirming. You're. You're actually confessing that this ritual that you took part in, that you have been taught was the new birth, did nothing for you. Inwardly, radically transformative. Nothing. Nothing. I thought, man, what a. [00:23:21] Speaker B: But that's one of the reasons I put this point in here. Verse 5 cannot refer to water baptism. [00:23:26] Speaker A: Because if someone's honest, it has done nothing for them in their heart, has done nothing for them in their heart. To the contrary, whenever a person comes to Christ and comes to Christ as just a condemned sinner, nothing more than a sinner, and they in faith trust in him and call upon him, they didn't do anything. They merely looked to, as we'll see later in John 3, they looked to Christ, and immediately something happened. We know what that is. But something happened that totally transformed their life in a moment. And that is a miracle. And that's what Jesus is talking about. [00:24:13] Speaker B: Okay, so those are your five reasons. Five reasons that verse five cannot refer to water baptism. The context, the words, the mention of the Spirit, the mention of the water, and. And the lack of proof the lack of proof. Now let's look at Romans 6. We're going to look at a few. [00:24:33] Speaker A: Other verses in the New Testament that. [00:24:35] Speaker B: Are often go to verses. [00:24:39] Speaker A: That are. [00:24:40] Speaker B: Used to argue that baptism is required for salvation. Since we're on the subject, Romans 6, number 3. Romans 6. 3 says this. Know ye not that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death, therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death. That like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection. [00:25:19] Speaker A: See that? What is the one thing that's missing in this? The word water or the mention or concept of water. There's no mention of water anywhere in these verses. [00:25:38] Speaker B: Now look down at verse number six. Now remember, as we went through verses three and four, were baptized into his death. [00:25:47] Speaker A: How did Christ die? [00:25:48] Speaker B: He died on a what? On a cross. He was buried in a what? In a tomb. And he was raised from the dead. Right, that's mentioned. All of that is mentioned in verse four. His burial, Christ's resurrection. Okay, look at verse six, knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him. [00:26:13] Speaker A: Okay? So they say, well, you got to be baptized because that's how you're buried with Christ. You're baptized to be buried with Christ. Well, my old man wasn't crucified. [00:26:25] Speaker B: That's a spiritual thing. [00:26:27] Speaker A: That's not a physical thing. [00:26:29] Speaker B: And the same old man who was crucified in verse 6, notice our old man is crucified with him. [00:26:37] Speaker A: So if our old man is hanging on that cross with Jesus, that's what it's saying, right? [00:26:40] Speaker B: The body of sin. That's my old man. Well, that same old guy, after he's dead, is going in the grave, right? He's buried. And that same old man is raised. [00:26:51] Speaker A: In newness of life with Christ. Every bit of that is spiritual. The whole picture is spiritual, right? [00:26:58] Speaker B: In verse six. The whole picture. [00:27:00] Speaker A: Okay, that's the key is verse six. [00:27:03] Speaker B: Because then you go back to verse three. So many of us, as we're baptized in Jesus Christ, were baptized into his death. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism. This is not water baptism. [00:27:13] Speaker A: This is a spiritual point that we're buried with him. This is a baptism that is an immersion in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Has nothing to do whatsoever with water. [00:27:30] Speaker B: Nothing to do with water. This is referring to the Old man, so getting baptized does not mean you're buried with Christ. [00:27:39] Speaker A: Getting baptized symbolizes that you're already buried with Christ, which is why you have to be a believer to be baptized, right? [00:27:50] Speaker B: Otherwise you completely reverse someone is doing. [00:27:54] Speaker A: The form without the actual thing, which is totally wrong. [00:28:03] Speaker B: The mention of baptism in these verses helps us to understand that water baptism. [00:28:09] Speaker A: Does indeed symbolize not only Christ's death, burial and resurrection, but also our own death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. In other words, we should be different people. If we've been born again. Old man's dead, buried, there's only a new man. We should live after the new man and walk in that truth. That's all it's describing. Look at 1 Corinthians 12, 1 Corinthians 12, verse 12. [00:28:48] Speaker B: 1 Corinthians 12 12. The Bible says, for as the body is one and hath many members, and all the members of that one body being many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free, and have been all made to drink into one spirit. For the body is not one member, but many. Now, in this case, the body is referring to the church of God, which is composed of all believers, and there is but one body. [00:29:27] Speaker A: In other words, this is the same truth as what we find when we see the term in Christ. To be in Christ means you're in his body. [00:29:35] Speaker B: But look at verse number 13. Who. [00:29:37] Speaker A: Is the baptizer in verse 13? The Spirit. [00:29:44] Speaker B: Not the preacher, not the deacon. [00:29:48] Speaker A: It's the Spirit. The Spirit is the one doing the baptizing. [00:29:53] Speaker B: No water is present. This is a spiritual baptism. Therefore, this verse cannot refer to being baptized in water to join the church. [00:30:01] Speaker A: Which is how it's commonly understood. They view the visible church here, the. [00:30:06] Speaker B: Local church, as the body. [00:30:08] Speaker A: And they say, when you get baptized, you're being baptized into the body. [00:30:12] Speaker B: This is not what this verse is saying. [00:30:16] Speaker A: This is a reference to the moment that a person gets saved. They are baptized into the body of Christ. They are part of the body of Christ that comes by faith. That is not a matter of water. There's no water here. Besides. [00:30:31] Speaker B: Now I'm going to quote you from the catechism, and this is what. [00:30:35] Speaker A: I'm going to read you now, is representative of what a lot of different religious groups would believe. Okay, so this is just one of many. [00:30:42] Speaker B: Okay, this is from. Quoted from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Part 2, Section 2, Chapter 1, Article 1 holy baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit and the door which gives access to the other sacraments through baptism. [00:31:06] Speaker A: Now, in this case, they're not referring to spiritual baptism. This is only water baptism of infants, okay? [00:31:14] Speaker B: Through baptism, we are freed from sin. [00:31:17] Speaker A: And reborn as sons of God. So I didn't make that up, right? I didn't make that up. This is a one to one switch between the new birth and water baptism. [00:31:32] Speaker B: Through baptism, we are reborn as sons of God. We become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission. Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the Word. [00:31:49] Speaker A: Now that might sound familiar. We'll get to that verse in a minute. Here it is plainly articulated that not only does this religion teach rather that baptism is the new birth, but it also is required to become part of the body of Christ. First Corinthians 12:13 does not say that. It is a spiritual baptism only. All right, look at Galatians 3. [00:32:25] Speaker B: Galatians 3, 27. [00:32:31] Speaker A: We'll go through these just quickly. [00:32:34] Speaker B: Verse 26 as an example says, for ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. See that there is neither Jew nor Greek. There is neither bond nor free. There is neither male nor female, for. [00:32:54] Speaker A: You are all one in Christ Jesus. Listen, this is a truth that goes way back to John. The idea that there's a spiritual baptism and it's not always water. [00:33:04] Speaker B: The water baptism actually pictures the spiritual. [00:33:07] Speaker A: Which is the real. The water baptism is the symbol, the form. The real thing is the spirit. Remember what Jesus said of John. Rather, John said of Jesus, he said, he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Right? And that was distinct from John's water baptism. So this is a long established truth in scripture. [00:33:32] Speaker B: Here it is again baptized into not water, but Christ. [00:33:38] Speaker A: So people, that's what they say is, well, you're baptized into the church. [00:33:41] Speaker B: The church is the body of Christ. [00:33:42] Speaker A: Therefore, what about. [00:33:44] Speaker B: You've skipped a step here. You've misunderstood the scripture. [00:33:48] Speaker A: Look at Ephesians 4, Ephesians 4, verse. [00:33:54] Speaker B: 5. [00:34:00] Speaker A: Verse 4 rather says this. [00:34:03] Speaker B: There is one body and one spirit, even as you are called in one hope of your calling. One Lord, one faith, one baptism. [00:34:14] Speaker A: This isn't water. No water here. Remember, the water baptism is the symbol of the real thing. The real thing is the spiritual baptism of which Jesus spoke. Right? So this baptism is the real thing. One Lord, one faith, one baptism. Colossians chapter 2. Look at that. Colossians 2, verse number. [00:34:52] Speaker B: 12. [00:34:54] Speaker A: Well, verse 11, you'll see. This is a little bit repetitive, but just hang with me. [00:34:58] Speaker B: Colossians 2, 11. In whom ye also ye are circumcised, with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off of the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ buried with him in baptism. [00:35:11] Speaker A: We already looked at Romans 6, says it plainly. [00:35:14] Speaker B: Wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead, is spiritual. [00:35:21] Speaker A: It's obviously a parallel reference to Romans 6. [00:35:25] Speaker B: Titus, chapter 3. [00:35:27] Speaker A: Two more verses and we'll be done. [00:35:28] Speaker B: Titus, chapter 3, verse 5. Not by works of righteousness, which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost. [00:36:00] Speaker A: See how it's done? You see the word wash? What do you use to wash? Water. Therefore it must be referring to baptism. [00:36:08] Speaker B: They're stuck on the word washing and. [00:36:10] Speaker A: Force it to mean baptizing. But First Corinthians 6, 11, Ephesians 5, 26, both refer to washings with no mention of water baptism. Actually, it mentions the word. [00:36:24] Speaker B: Now, unless you put a Bible. [00:36:26] Speaker A: Maybe you could suspend a Bible in. [00:36:28] Speaker B: The baptistry while we're baptizing people. [00:36:30] Speaker A: You can't be baptized with the word in that way. I wouldn't recommend it. It wouldn't be effective. [00:36:38] Speaker B: Besides that, look at verse. Not by works of righteousness, which we have done. [00:36:44] Speaker A: So to say that this is we're washed by baptism in this verse. The very verse says you're not by works of righteousness, which obviously baptism would be. So the very verse contradicts that idea. [00:36:58] Speaker B: Notice it says washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost, which goes. [00:37:04] Speaker A: Back, straight back to where we started. John, chapter three. Regeneration, the spiritual birth, which are both mentioned in this verse. So this washing, this regeneration, is spiritual, has nothing to do with water. [00:37:20] Speaker B: And verse six, besides that tells us how these benefits were bestowed, which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior. Which means that they were bestowed by Jesus Christ, and by his sacrifice upon. [00:37:36] Speaker A: The cross, not by baptism. You see? [00:37:42] Speaker B: And the Last 1 is 1st Peter. [00:37:43] Speaker A: 3, 1st Peter, chapter 3, 1st Peter 3, verse number 21, 1st Peter 3. [00:38:05] Speaker B: 21 says this, the like figure. Whereunto even baptism doth also now save us. Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. [00:38:16] Speaker A: See saved by baptism. See, see? Well, he says, not putting away the philosophical but the answer of a good conscience toward God. So he actually explains the purpose. And I'll admit that this verse is a little bit mysterious in the context, but if you're going to say, well. [00:38:36] Speaker B: This verse shows that you're saved by. [00:38:39] Speaker A: Baptism, which is what it says, if they're right, you have to basically overturn the whole rest of the New Testament to take that interpretation. And that itself is a violation of the hermeneutical principles of interpretation to just overturn all the other verses in favor of one that you don't. That is mysterious at best. It's mysterious at best. It's not perfectly clear. [00:39:03] Speaker B: So that is a brief, very quick study of how baptism and the different. [00:39:12] Speaker A: References in scripture are misunderstood. [00:39:15] Speaker B: I hope it's a blessing to you. [00:39:16] Speaker A: And equips you better to be able. [00:39:18] Speaker B: To handle those verses. Let's pray.