What is Independent Baptist? (Part 3)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Okay, well, let's jump right into our study here and pick up where we left off last week. We are looking at, we are addressing the question in our study of our church that is just kind of covering some theological, practical, doctrinal, important questions regarding the church in general and our church specifically. And the question we're looking at now is the question of what is Independent Baptist. Obviously, we know what's on the church sign Choice Hills Baptist Church. And we're not, you know, we're not ashamed of that fact. Does that create issues? Are there people that have had bad experiences at Baptist churches, that is, churches with Baptist on the name and therefore would not come to our church for that cause? Yes, but there are also church. The reverse is also true. It might not be Baptist. It might be Presbyterian or Methodist or whatever, but that's going to be the case no matter what. Even if you put church on the church sign, you put the word church people, I'm not going to church because that's what happened to church. I mean, eventually you're chasing your tail. And so self identification is not a bad thing, I think, as long as we have the right attitude and tone. And that's what we've been looking at today. So we will pray and then we'll get into the final couple of Baptist distinctives we've been looking at. So let's pray together. Our Father, thank you for the chance to come together and to study your Word. Thank you for the opportunity to fellowship with one another and encourage one another and especially, Lord, that we have the chance to study these truths, study the Scriptures and to learn more about what you're doing in the world. And Lord, we're just a we know, Lord, we're a small part of that. But Lord, we want to be a part of it. We don't want to be aloof or absent, but we want to be engaged. So help us, Lord, to be engaged. Guide us in our study. Help us, Lord, especially to strike the right tone in these things, because some of these things can be can be contentious and they have been throughout history. But Lord, we want to try to be as kind and amenable and have as much unity as we possibly can in these matters and yet still hold to the truth of Scripture without compromise or apology, but do so with a good attitude. And so, Lord, help us with that. We just commit our time to you and we ask you to bless our study in Jesus name. Amen. So far, what we've looked at in the Baptist distinctives and all that means is and you have to understand, I want to make sure that I'm clear to everyone here because so that our terms are clear, the meanings are clear, so everyone understands what we mean, or at least what I mean. I can't speak for anyone else when I use these terms. So when I say the word Baptist, I'm not talking about just the people that are going to heaven, right? That small group of people that are going to heaven because only Baptists are going to heaven, right? Wrong, wrong, wrong. That's not what I'm trying to say at all. But when we say Baptist, we're referring to a body of doctrine, right? A set of doctrines and truths and beliefs and principles that are distinctive among the Baptist people. That's all we're talking about here, okay? And throughout history, as I said last week, there have been other groups that held to these doctrines, and they were not called Baptists. They were called various things, depending on who their leader was, what era, what language they spoke, all of these other things. So. But that's the term I'm using. So I am not referring to a denomination, okay? I want to make that clear. I'm not referring to a denomination that's headquartered in Nashville or Orlando or Jacksonville or wherever. That's not what I'm talking about. And so we'll get into that soon enough. So the distinctives are that we've covered so far, Biblical authority, autonomy of the local church. And we will circle back around with these things as we move forward, because these things begin to pop up more and more. The priesthood of the believer is number three. Two ordinances, which is believers. Baptism by immersion and the Lord's Supper is number four. Individual soul liberty is number five. Number six is saved. Church membership, membership, regenerate church membership. It's also called number seven is two offices of the church. And that's where we're going to pick up. And then we'll get into the eighth and the final one in just a minute. So when we were talking about two offices of the church, what we're referring to is the office of pastor, also called bishop or even elder. There have been times people refer to it as elder. So that office, as well as the deacon. All right, And a deacon is that means minister or servant. And so pastor just means shepherd. That's all that word means. Bishop means overseer, and elder just refers to someone being older, older, primarily referring to older in the faith, but also older in age. Now, we saw both of these offices together in Philippians chapter one and verse number one, we also saw them Both together in First Timothy, chapter three, verses two, and verse eight, when we see there are requirements for a bishop and there are requirements for a deacon, and they're connected with the word what? Anybody remember likewise, which connects those two offices. So why do we only have those two offices? Why don't we have cardinals? Or why don't we have archbishops? Why don't we have all those things? Well, it's simple. Can you guess the reason? What? Good. No, you're good. But why don't we have others? I think there's a simpler answer. Although that's true, it's just not in the Bible. It's true. Yes. You know, and I know there are people that take these terms that we see in the Bible, like bishop, elder and stuff, and they use them in different ways than the Bible uses them. But what we're talking about is a Bible term. We don't need to get hung up on terms, right? There's a biblical term, and that's important. But the function of that office is the more important part rather than what it's called, because, as I said, it's been called different things at different times. But the Bible only mentions two, and it only mentions those two offices in the context of a local congregation. Okay? Those two truths are super important. What you never see in Scripture is a hierarchy of offices where there's levels, which is where you get into archbishops, you know, and cardinals and all that kind of thing. And it goes all the way up, you know, in these huge national or global organizations and religions. And so. So that's all we see in Scripture. And it also tells us, just by way of review, that because there's only two. There are only two offices. There are no separate classes of Christians in Scripture. What does that mean? That means the pastor or bishop and the deacon is from among the congregation. He's not parachuted in because he has been anointed with holy water or because he wore a lambskin apron and said a blood oath or because he's been, you know, some of you know what I'm talking about. Some of you don't. But it's not like any kind of initiation has made him, you know, holy more than anyone else. In fact, I think there are many people within churches, an average church, that if you want to compare holiness, are more holy than the pastor. Like, they are more in touch with the Lord than the pastor. Should that be? Listen, this is not a competition here. This is not a competition. We each grow at our own pace. I am certain there are people in our church that have grown more than I have as a believer. Is that startling to anybody? I'm certain that's the case. Just walking with God. The difference is not necessarily in maturity, although you want your leaders to have maturity, right? The difference is in function, what they're God given role in the church is, right? There could be ladies. Ladies aren't allowed by in scripture, aren't allowed to take spiritual leadership in a church. And that's fine, but that doesn't mean that ladies are less spiritually mature. To the contrary, that's not the case at all. But what we're talking about is the function. The function and the role that God has given each one of us. And every one of us has a role in the church. Every one of us has a role and a place to fill. Now, it might not be an official role or a title or an office like that, but that doesn't mean it's not a necessary role. We've already studied that in the past in our study here. So the spiritual leadership in the church because of these two offices as we see them in scripture means there are no classes in Scripture. All people, including the spiritual leaders are of the same class. And all of us are sheep of the Lord Jesus Christ. So there is just one class. That's why we use the term clergy and laity. First of all, not found in scripture. Secondly, it is not a truth. There is no distinction in scripture between clergy and laity. And so that means that the byproduct, kind of downstream effect of that means that the pastor and the deacons are not supposed to be the only people living for God and serving God. But that is exactly what cultural Christianity has taught us this. Well, they're the clergy, we're the lady. We're supposed to sit and listen and give our loyalty and in turn they're supposed to serve God for us. No, no, no, no, no. That is erroneous. We are all supposed to serve God with all that we are. Everybody give me a nod. Yes, the Nicolaitans, there's good reason to think that that's referring to that division, although it's probably not a slam dunk. But this basically means like power over the people. The idea of a lot of people think it's that clergy, laity. But you got to realize, even when in this, like, even in this context of this Sunday school class, if I refer to clergy and laity or if I say a layman or something like that, we mean it in the most basic sense, as in they don't hold an office in the church, even if we just use it by accident. But when other people say it, they mean something entirely different. In a denominational structure, when you refer to the laity, you're referring to someone who is not in the hierarchy. So the meaning is a lot deeper, a lot more profound. So the other thing to mention about these offices, as I just again reviewing, is that those who hold these offices have no. What are called sacramental powers. In other words, they do not hold any power to do anything that any Christian, any other Christian, can't do. In other words, like the power or the authority to bless certain people or perform certain rituals. And I'll give you an example, all right? According to our church constitution, which is not the Bible, but we try to base it upon the Bible, right? The deacons of the church and the pastor are the ones that are supposed to administer the Lord's Supper, and that's what we do. But did you see? Did you see the last time we had the Lord's Supper, Brother Ari helped distribute the bread and the juice. Brother Ari is not a deacon, but it is perfectly acceptable to do that. You know why? Because that's what our constitution says we needed. We, you know, Brother Muxloe is not here and that kind of thing. So we needed other people to fill in. Brother Mark has, Brother Ben has. And that's perfectly okay because there is no distinction in class. You see, it's not like, well, the deacons are, you know, Brother Vernon has been through some sort of elaborate ritual to make him, you know, somehow qualified to do that. And it's not like that at all. Same thing goes with the pastor, right? Another example I'll give is a lot of people get hung up on who can baptize people. Only the pastor can. Well, that's not biblical. Philip baptized the Ethiopian eunuch. Philip was an evangelist. But if I'm not mistaken, wasn't he? No, I'm thinking I'm getting him and Stephen mixed up. But anyway, Philip was not a pastor, as far as we know. He didn't fill any official office in the church. And here he is baptizing someone. And so we get these religious ideas, and it's okay to have order in a certain way. You do it. You know, in our tradition, the pastor does the baptizing, and that's fine. But if there was another case, the pastor was sick or, you know, there was some other case, an assistant would do it. There's nothing in scripture says they can't, because, again, there's no class. So it's not like the pastor is only qualified to do that function. That's just not something we see in Scripture. So the question I want to bring to your attention before we move on is this. Because when we talk about the offices, you start to see this word ordain. Right, Ordain. The one distinction you have in Scripture between a pastor and deacons and everyone else is that they have been ordained into their office. Ordained into their office. Look at a couple verses there. Acts, chapter number six, Acts, chapter six. Now, you might be surprised to find out that there are other people beside pastors or bishops and deacons that are ordained where that word ordained is used. We'll look at that in just a minute. So it's not just those two. Acts, chapter six and verse number, verse number five. So this is the choosing of the original seven deacons who were to help out with helping the widows in the first church there in Jerusalem. Verse 5 says this. And the saying pleased the whole multitude. And they chose Stephen, a man full of faith, and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip and Prochorus and Nicanor and Timon and Parmenas and Nicolas, a proselyte of Antioch, whom they set before the apostles. And when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them. Now notice, the word ordain is not found in this passage. See that? And here's why. Although the word is not found in the passage, the truth, the principle is because. What does the word ordain mean? It means to set, to appoint, to establish. And so by the apostles laying their hands on these men, it wasn't like spiritual power was being. No, no, no, no. That's not what. This is what people think. Is it not? You know, when I was ordained down here, I want to tell you, because I was ordained, I have a picture on my desk of when the church ordained me. And the men of the church came down and laid their hands and prayed. I didn't feel any spiritual power come upon me. It wasn't like I became some sort of super Christian at that moment. No, no, no. Do you know what that was about? Ordination is just about a public acknowledgment and approval of the man and of his work by the church. Specifically by the leaders of the church, but in representative of the whole church. That's what it is. We are recognizing this man going into this office. So some people say, well, I'm an ordained deacon, but if you're not a deacon, if you're not actually serving as a deacon, what you're actually kind of doing is wearing a kind of. Kind of a badge of pride, right? Because do you think that because you're an ordained deacon or because you're an ordained preacher that somehow you're, you know, you notch up on other people? There's a special, you know, you have a special halo or something that you wear. No, no, no, no. Ordination deals with setting someone into an office. Into an office. That's what you see here. That's why it's not like these men became super, super Christians. They were already super Christians. Right? But the church was acknowledging it. Again, we keep on reverting back to this. It's not about the men. It's about the church. It's about the church recognizing them, approving of them. That's what it is. It's not about the men being able to brag that. I'm an ordained preacher. I'm an ordained preacher. Well, if you're not preaching, what does that matter? Right? I'm called to preach. Well, if you ain't preaching, what does that matter? Right? But again, these things get passed around and we ask ourselves, where are these things found in the Bible? Look at chapter 13 of Acts, verse 1. Says now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers as Barnabas and Simeon, that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch and Saul. As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, separate me, Barnabas and Saul, for the work whereunto I have called them. And when they had fasted and prayed, they laid their hands on them and sent them away. You see that the word ordain's not in here either. You know what they're doing? The church is officially recognizing and approving of these men and their work, publicly laying their hands on them, praying for them and sending, commissioning them out. Yes, sir. So what I think it is. That is a difficult passage to understand, but the takeaway from that is I think there's a connection made between the approval of the church, right, via the presbytery, which is just the elders. That's the. That's the spiritual leadership. There's a connection the Lord makes there between the spiritual leadership and the. I'm sorry, between the church and what the church is doing in officially recognizing this person and the Lord's recognition of it. In other words, it is not when the church. This is why the Bible says that we should. The church should lay hands suddenly on no man. Because when the church formally approves As a body. Because the power, the authority is with the body, not with the preacher, but with the body. When the body approves of a man and then he ends up being unworthy. Right. That is a shame upon the body, the whole body. Alright. And in the same way, just like when Jesus said, we've already covered this in Matthew when he said, whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven. That principle of the church as a whole. So when the church does that and recognizes that, I think there's absolutely an element that the Lord is going to enable that man to fulfill that office and that function by virtue of that church making that, you know, making that formal. So this is why we do those things. It's not magic, it's we're obeying the Lord. This is the pattern the Lord has set for us to do. And so I would expect that if a man is ordained by the church as a deacon, that God is going to enable that man to function that capacity. And the same goes true with the pastor. Does that make sense? So there is accountability there, there is a gift and abilities that the Lord enables there. And I think the Lord takes seriously the church's formal recognition of a person and appointment and a place because after all, it is his church. Does that make sense? [00:22:17] Speaker B: This individual is almost. God is going to expect more from him. [00:22:23] Speaker A: Oh yeah, absolutely. Yes. Yes, exactly. I do think that. And that seems kind of weird that a decision that a church would make, the Lord would respond to that, but he absolutely does that. And that's, that's. It's kind of hard for us to understand. But, but I think that's true. Yes sir. [00:23:06] Speaker B: I think we tend to overlooked offices more than God does. And we look at the people, whether it's the president or preacher or we look at the person, whether we like them or not. God honors the office. And there are examples of that even in the Old Testament. Gideon, he didn't feel any special power. [00:23:29] Speaker A: By the angel, Thou mighty man of valor. To the angel. Yeah. [00:23:35] Speaker B: Noah or not Jonah, he wasn't even willing. God had worked through unwilling people when he's appointed them to certain offices. Not so much the man that is worthy of it for his working, but I think, and I'm sure God will receive greater confirmation. But fact is, he held the office and got work. [00:24:01] Speaker A: That's true. And the whole point is for those that hold offices of spiritual leadership is it should keep us humble because we are not without God helping us and enabling us. I mean, we're just, we are sunk. We are depending upon God's enabling grace. And that is it, full stop. And it is an honor, but it's an honor that is closely attached with a high level of responsibility. And so that's what we need to pay attention to. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. So just to understand. And the reason I brought up ordination is because we're talking about two offices and a classless church, no classes. So ordination does not put you in a different class. Although culturally, in Christian culture, that's often understood. But biblically, that's not true. What it does is it formally recognizes the office in which a person is serving. And that's a serious matter. If we take God's word seriously, we take our faith seriously. That's a serious matter. And I absolutely believe that before the judgment seat of Christ, the Lord is going to ask me about my time as a missionary and about my time as a pastor of this church, as well as other offices that I might have held. Same thing is true of the prior pastors. Same thing is true of all the deacons that have ever served in this church. He is going to ask. He is going to ask. He takes it seriously. And we should, too. And that strikes a little bit of fear in me, to be honest with you. [00:25:50] Speaker B: I. [00:25:50] Speaker A: To want, I need, I must. Right. Be faithful. Right. So. All right. All right. Let's go to the last one, and we're going to kind of hurry here. The last one is the last. Principle of Baptist principle is the separation of church and state. Separated separation, excuse me, the separation of church and state. This truth, and I know this has been misused and this has been used to say that the government cannot have the Ten Commandments up. The government cannot say anything or the president can't even speak about religion or any. That never was what it meant. But that's the term we use here. This is built upon the truth of individual soul liberty, which we've covered already. In other words, what this means is that no government, individual or church, has power to force a belief upon the conscience of another. Because forced faith is not true faith. Right. And so an offshoot of that or parallel to that is the truth that not even the government can do that. And so the government should keep its grubby hands out of affairs of religion. That what that means is enforcing religion, promoting religion. It has its sphere and the church has its sphere. And the government does not have biblical authority and power to dictate the church's sphere to the church. Right. That's what is meant by this. And this is Built. And of course, throughout the years, people have dodged this idea of this freedom of the conscience, which is the basis of this, by saying, in other words, people that supported what is called state established religion. That was true before the Constitution was ratified. It was true in the United States. It's been true, it's true to this day throughout Europe, including in Germany to this day. Where a church has a nation, has an official religion, tax dollars go to support it and that kind of thing. Exactly. So that's a state church, right? And so the way they avoid this, avoid the freedom of the conscience is they just, they require dues, they require membership. And this is, it varies throughout history, but they say you don't have to believe what this church teaches, but the government is going to promote this, right, this particular thing. And this is a principle that Baptists have been opposed to throughout history. So as Bible believing people, we believe and recognize the legitimate authority of, of civil government, right? We've seen that throughout Scripture. So civil government has a place that God has given it, has authority and power that God has given it. As an example. The church has no power whatsoever to execute laws, right? Civil laws. That is not our purview. And any attempt and see what has happened is over time and I'll get into this in a minute. But over time, as the church has gained power and authority, the tendency has always been to get the state to legitimize the church by support, put the people in the church, the leaders of the church, give them civil authority, and now we can enforce our faith upon society. Right? That's how it's happened throughout history. And the problem is that the Lord Jesus Christ has never given us that authority, that power. And so the idea of putting someone to death because they refuse to believe a certain thing that we preach or teach, the idea of jailing someone is wholly anti scriptural, wholly anti scriptural. Not even that, not even that. Civil governments are the ones that have the power to make civil laws and to execute civil punishments. And the church rules in spiritual matters. Now this does not mean, however, that matters of religion are not to be permitted to be spoken in public venues. It never meant that it was actually kind of hijacked to keep religion out of public places. I mean, you just go to the Supreme Court building and you see Moses etched into the, you know, the facade of the Supreme Court building. I mean, you can tell that's, you don't need anything other than that. That proves that that was never understood that way until recent times. Jesus said to Pilate that His kingdom was not of this world. Because if his kingdom was of this world, his servants would fight they he would not be delivered to him in John 18:36. Originally, the separation of the church and state meant that the state should stay out of the affairs of the church. Okay? As a result of this, we as a people, as a Christian people, resist any effort the government to dictate to us what we do or should believe or practice. Does that make sense? That is not within their power. We do see, however, that Baptists throughout history have sought to influence government such that they have in history pushed back against tendencies in government to rule over the consciences of men. Baptists throughout history have sought to influence policies that promote not their faith, but promote the preservation of religious freedom by the government. Now, this is. I want to read something to you here. This is a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist association, dated January 1, 1802. It is written Jefferson wrote this in response to the association's letter to him in which they expressed concerns about religious freedom in Connecticut. And here's what Thomas Jefferson wrote in response. Thomas Jefferson was not a Christian. Okay? He says this believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only and not opinions. I contemplate with sovereign reverence that that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church, state. Thomas Jefferson said that originally is the first time it was mentioned. But not to keep the church out of the state, but the state out of the church. See that? This is the original meaning. Virginia Baptists who faced persecution from the Anglican established church were vocal advocates for the disestablishment of the Anglican church. What does disestablishment mean? It means that the state ceases to officially sanction a particular religion, so the state cuts its ties with a particular religion. In Virginia, it was the Anglicans and the Baptists advocated for the cutting of that tie because they wanted religious freedom. Their petitions to the Virginia legislature in the 1770s and 1780s aligned with Thomas Jefferson's views and their 1801 letter to him as president. So that letter I just read was to the president. He was president at the time prompted his famous response, reflecting mutual concerns about state interference in religion. And so this is one of the. This is one of the principles that Baptist people throughout history have held to now, I don't really have time to get into this. We'll have to cover this next week. But one of the reasons why we hold this is recognizing the civil authority and the church authority and how that they're separate is because throughout history, as I said, once Christianity has been officially adopted by the state and its leaders are put in positions of power, they then begin to enforce Christian faith upon civilization. And few things are more destructive to civilization and to Christianity both than that. Because now you have all of these people who are part of Christianity who are not Christians, and all of these things done are done in the name of Christ. For instance, and I'll close with this, for instance, Christopher Columbus, if you read the original documents, claimed, I think it's San Salvador where he landed for Christianity, right? And Christian people have ignorantly assumed that he claimed it for the gospel. But he didn't. You see, Spain, he was sent by the king of Spain. Spain had an established state religion, and that was Catholicism. And so the idea was to spread Catholicism over San Salvador and enforce its laws upon this new world. It had nothing to do with the gospel at all. 00. And why? Because that was the merging of the state and the church. And this has happened throughout history. We'll have to cover that next week to give you a broader understanding of that and help us to see how that happens. But again, the Baptist people throughout history have been like, stop doing this. Stop doing this. Let the civil government have its sphere and the church have its sphere and do not merge them, which is what has happened throughout history. Let's pray together.